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 PBB Dreaming

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Colin



Posts : 2
Join date : 2008-09-08

PostSubject: PBB Dreaming   September 8th 2008, 7:07 pm

HI! Very Happy I was wondering where everybody went.
Please let me know if this is the wrong place for this post...

i am in the dreaming stage of my PBB and was curious;
Is there a preferred size for the "core" table?
I see a lot of 48"-50" X 26" and narrower. Is the narrowness for storage/ transport or are there other consierations?

I am thinking 50" x 36"or so with removable legs. A center rail on the top so you would have two removable top panels (about 24" x 34"x 3/4") The panel(s) could be set up for job spacific tooling and jigging...("Jiggin" that's just fun to say)


Q; Other than floor space would the 36" dim. work aginst me in some way?
If you had the space wouldn't a 50" x 50" be ideal?
Thanks,
Colin
P.S. Where is the spell check?
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Dik Harrison

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Posts : 233
Join date : 2008-07-01
Age : 70
Location : Evans, GA, USA

PostSubject: Mine is too different to really answer you   September 8th 2008, 7:58 pm

Colin,

Because my PBB is in two sections, 2'x6' and 3'x6'. I usually have it set up in an "L" shape that is 9'x6'. I do that so I can cross cut or rip a full sheet of 4x8, and also to straight line 8' oak. If need be, I can put them end to end and straight line 12' oak. But then I have a large dedicated shop (2150 sq.ft.) basement, at thsi time I only use about 1000 sq ft for wood working, but may expand at some point. It is heavily built, but can easily be rolled to what ever arrangement I need. There are pictures and drawings in the sticky for custom PBBs on SMC-EurekaZone.

Maybe some that is still lerking here can give a better answer. You will probably get a lot of feed back if you post on SMC.

Have fun...

Dik
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Bruce Benjamin



Posts : 97
Join date : 2008-07-01
Age : 54
Location : Redding, California (Far Northern Ca.)

PostSubject: Re: PBB Dreaming   September 9th 2008, 3:47 pm

Colin wrote:
HI! Very Happy I was wondering where everybody went.
Please let me know if this is the wrong place for this post...

i am in the dreaming stage of my PBB and was curious;
Is there a preferred size for the "core" table?
I see a lot of 48"-50" X 26" and narrower. Is the narrowness for storage/ transport or are there other consierations?

I am thinking 50" x 36"or so with removable legs. A center rail on the top so you would have two removable top panels (about 24" x 34"x 3/4") The panel(s) could be set up for job spacific tooling and jigging...("Jiggin" that's just fun to say)


Q; Other than floor space would the 36" dim. work aginst me in some way?
If you had the space wouldn't a 50" x 50" be ideal?
Thanks,
Colin
P.S. Where is the spell check?

Hi Colin, I'm glad you made it over here. You ask a good question but it's a hard one to answer. Dik is lucky in that he has so much shop space but many/most of us don't have that much. I'm lucky in that I have the majority of my two car garage to devote to tools but it is very full. In addition to most of the major floor tools I also have a good sized work bench and a large lumber/sheet goods rack. Just about everything is on wheels so I can roll it all around but that means I usually have to move this to make room to move that in order to use what I really need. So my PBB, which has been disassembled for a redesign, doesn't have too much space nor does my Smart table.

With all of that in mind, if I had all of the space that I need I would make my PBB to something the size of what Dik has. Maybe not in two pieces but that could work very well for me too. In the interest of space I plan to keep my PBB fairly small, (Somewhere in the same size as what most of the other guys are doing) and try to combine my Smart Table with the PBB. Another thought is to possibly combine my work bench with a PBB. The problem with that is that I will need to be more organized than I am now so that I won't clutter up the PBB/Workbench too much to use the PBB part of it.

I think what it all boils down to is what fits your needs. I know that sounds like a vague, overly simplified answer but that's really the answer. Do you have plenty of floor space? What sort of projects do you see yourself making? Some people make things that require more ripping of 4x8 sheets, (Versus cross cutting them) so a longer table could be a big help. That doesn't mean that there aren't ways to adapt the shorter PBB to rip long sheets but it won't be as convenient as one that allows you to just flop the sheet onto the table and rip it. Some people cross cut sheets first and a 25"x50" PBB will allow for that just fine. This is Dino's preferred method for cabinet making. If you happen to use a lot of longer solid boards then a longer PBB would be a benefit.

As you can see there are many different requirements and considerations that vary from person to person. The 25"x50" is a good size for most, "Average projects", (Whatever that means) and you can extend the Bridge beyond the end of the table to a temporary stand so that you can make longer cuts. Not as convenient though if you do lots of these types of cuts. Another alternative is to build a simple Smart table and just use the guide rails without a Bridge. You make your longer cuts and then transfer the pieces to the PBB for shorter rips and/or cross cuts.

If you have the floor space then you can either make a bigger table to take care of long and short cuts or you can do as Dik has and make two tables that can be configured as the need calls for. One problem I can see with making a table too wide is that you might have a problem reaching across it. I'm not speaking from experience but I can see a table that's 4' wide possibly being a little too wide unless you have very long arms. I'm about 6'1" and have pretty long arms, (Think knuckle dragger monkey ) so I could probably get away with it. But I think a table maybe 3' wide by 6' to 8' long would offer plenty of support for the majority of cuts I'm ever likely to make without being overly cumbersome. I like Dik's idea to arrange two tables into an, "L" shape so that you can have the support for the width and length but also not have to reach so far.

I'd recommend doing some reading/research on the SMC forum, the EZ Smart website pictures, and the YouTube videos to see what others have done. Burt has probably used the EZ Smart system more than anyone, with the exception of Dino and he's made more versions of the PBB than anyone also. He's a full-time cabinet maker and he has made many PBBs trying to find out what works best for him. It seems that he's found that the larger PBBs aren't always the best when it comes to convenience. Hopefully Burt and others will see this post and throw in their experienced opinions. One thing about the EZ Smart, and specifically the PBB is that there really isn't a right way or wrong way to build it. And if you're not happy with it you can always modify it to better suit your needs. Just don't mortgage the farm to build your first PBB unless you're confident in your original design. That way if you have to waste a little wood rebuilding it you won't be out so much money.

Regarding the spell checker, I use a free program I found called, "ieSpell" and it's on my toolbar. Some forums have a spell checker built in and others don't but I always use this whenever possible and it works well.

Bruce
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Bruce Benjamin



Posts : 97
Join date : 2008-07-01
Age : 54
Location : Redding, California (Far Northern Ca.)

PostSubject: Re: PBB Dreaming   September 9th 2008, 4:11 pm

Dik Harrison wrote:
There are pictures and drawings in the sticky for custom PBBs on SMC-EurekaZone.

Maybe some that is still lerking here can give a better answer. You will probably get a lot of feed back if you post on SMC.

Have fun...

Dik

Hi Dik,

Hopefully we can try to ween people off of the SMC EZ forum and get more traffic over here. It would be great if we could have all of the information contained in the SMC stickies here on this forum. I invited Colin over to this forum because he seems to be just the kind of contributer that this place needs and his questions are thoughtful and thought provoking.

I think it was last week when Keith Goose-stepped into one of the SMC EZ threads to warn us all about the legal perils of badmouthing another company and he said the thread could be yanked if the company(s) in question complained about it. Right or wrong, I have no use for that sort of moderation. I really can appreciate Kieth's position and I'm glad he provides the space for the EZ forum there but quite honestly, I don't want to see that sort of thing when I'm in the middle of a conversation. If that sort of heavy-handed moderation is what is required to keep SMC running then I think it is time to close up shop there for EZ Smart. I was polite and obedient but had I been in a more neutral forum or face to face I would've had a much less polite and obedient answer for him. He's ready to boot me if I even look at someone funny so I really have to watch my tongue, (Typing fingers) on SMC. I would LOVE to see the daily traffic rate at SMC EZ forum trade places with this forum. But then again...A lot of people probably think that I'm just a trouble-making @$$hole and would be happy to see me abandon both forums all together. I can live with that. Rolling Eyes Cool

I'm sorry to take this new thread so far off topic. But I really wanted to reply to your suggestion to Colin to take this very good topic back over to SMC after I invited him over here to ask his questions. Please don't think that I'm in any way criticizing you or trying to butt heads in any way. I'm just trying to explain why I want this forum to succeed instead of the SMC version. Smile Cool

Bruce
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Dik Harrison

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Posts : 233
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Age : 70
Location : Evans, GA, USA

PostSubject: Spell checker   September 9th 2008, 4:13 pm

Colin,

The latest version of FireFox has a plug in Spell checker that checks almost any place you type in. That is what I use (I'm trying Google Chrome, but it has problems with this forum software so I'll go back to FireFox).
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Dik Harrison

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Age : 70
Location : Evans, GA, USA

PostSubject: Not a problem   September 9th 2008, 4:16 pm

Bruce, I don't have a problem with you or what you say. I just felt that given tha recent lack of posting here, that Colin might get more input on the SMC forum.
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Bruce Benjamin



Posts : 97
Join date : 2008-07-01
Age : 54
Location : Redding, California (Far Northern Ca.)

PostSubject: Re: PBB Dreaming   September 9th 2008, 4:20 pm

Dik Harrison wrote:
Bruce, I don't have a problem with you or what you say. I just felt that given tha recent lack of posting here, that Colin might get more input on the SMC forum.

I realize that but after reading what I had written I realized that it might've come across as critical of you and that wasn't at all my intent. I just wanted to clarify. Well, that I and really don't want this tread to go back over to SMC. Wink

Bruce
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Mike Goetzke



Posts : 40
Join date : 2008-07-01

PostSubject: Re: PBB Dreaming   September 9th 2008, 5:33 pm

Bruce Benjamin wrote:
Dik Harrison wrote:
Bruce, I don't have a problem with you or what you say. I just felt that given tha recent lack of posting here, that Colin might get more input on the SMC forum.

I realize that but after reading what I had written I realized that it might've come across as critical of you and that wasn't at all my intent. I just wanted to clarify. Well, that I and really don't want this tread to go back over to SMC. Wink

Bruce

Bruce - this happens to you a lot Wink .

I think it will be hard to get many to venture over here. Festool sites prosper because (my opinion) many just worship their tools while EZ-Owners enjoy woodworking and using tools that are safe and help them accomplish their job in the most efficient manner.

Back to the original question: I use my PBB in my garage shop. My base is 2'x4'. I have four top mounted SME's. Three are 3' long and one at 4'. All four overhang the left side of the base by 6". My bridge is approx. 6" from the left side of the base (so the cut is in the center of the base):



These dimensions work out well for me (my SME's are attached to t-track recessed in the base so I was able to move them around until I was satisfied with their locations) . If I were to do it over I may have added a couple of inches to the length - i.e. 50"x24" base. I suggest you use a few SME's so that you can use Dino's new PBB-STK (allows you to transform the PBB into a smart table) for making those long rip cuts:





Mike
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Burt



Posts : 86
Join date : 2008-06-23
Age : 71
Location : Sumter, SC

PostSubject: Re: PBB Dreaming   September 9th 2008, 5:50 pm

Colin,

Bruce touched on most of the bases so there really isn't a lot for me to say I'd like to emphasize what Bruce said about power benches getting to big. I've found that generally speaking it is best to do the big cuts with the repeaters and.or square and thn use the PBB for the Smaller cuts. The thought here being that it is much easier to place the cabinet maker than it is to precise place a full sheet of plywood on a cutting table. I'm in my early 60's and have had some medical challenges so I am looking for the easiest way to accomplish the task. The main bench we are using now is about 30 x 60. It is fully equipped as a PBB but we have a quick add-on version of the smart table that we use with it. This smart table can be added without removing anything from the PBB. Dino is also coming out with some plastic extrusions yto use in conjunction with the SME's for a smart table style table.

Dino is going to a standard table of roughly 25 x 50 (those measurements are close but not exact).
He plans to have modules that attach to the main Pbb for specialized purposes. I'm experimenting with this concept. A few weeks ago, I posted some photos of a work in progress. SInce that time I have added a 8' rip table for hardwood and am working on a router table. Not quiet ready for photos on the new stuff yet.

The important thing is to decide what you want and go for it. Keep in mind your working style, what you will be building, etc.

Burt
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Bruce Benjamin



Posts : 97
Join date : 2008-07-01
Age : 54
Location : Redding, California (Far Northern Ca.)

PostSubject: Re: PBB Dreaming   September 9th 2008, 6:32 pm

Mike Goetzke wrote:
Bruce Benjamin wrote:
Dik Harrison wrote:
Bruce, I don't have a problem with you or what you say. I just felt that given tha recent lack of posting here, that Colin might get more input on the SMC forum.

I realize that but after reading what I had written I realized that it might've come across as critical of you and that wasn't at all my intent. I just wanted to clarify. Well, that I and really don't want this tread to go back over to SMC. Wink

Bruce

Bruce - this happens to you a lot Wink .

I think it will be hard to get many to venture over here. Festool sites prosper because (my opinion) many just worship their tools while EZ-Owners enjoy woodworking and using tools that are safe and help them accomplish their job in the most efficient manner.

Mike

What I was saying was that my critical comments were directed solely at SMC and not at all at Dik. I was concerned that he might misunderstand to whom I was directing my critique but not the content of my critique. If I'm being critical of someone it will be very obvious to that person. If anyone ever thinks that it's possible that I was going after them they can relax and assume that I'm not. I will make it very clear in no uncertain terms, there won't be any, "Maybe" or, "Possibly". This applies to the past, if you know what I mean. We all tend to sometimes be too quick to assume that someone is attacking them and I've been guilty of this myself a few times.

In other words, all is well in my neck of the woods until I make it clear that it's otherwise. Twisted Evil Wink And then it's... affraid Laughing

Bruce
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Bruce Benjamin



Posts : 97
Join date : 2008-07-01
Age : 54
Location : Redding, California (Far Northern Ca.)

PostSubject: Re: PBB Dreaming   September 9th 2008, 6:59 pm

Mike Goetzke wrote:
I think it will be hard to get many to venture over here. Festool sites prosper because (my opinion) many just worship their tools while EZ-Owners enjoy woodworking and using tools that are safe and help them accomplish their job in the most efficient manner.

Mike


I almost forgot about the rest...I don't think there should be any comparison between the f-tool site and this site. I wasn't suggesting that people should avoid the SMC site and post more at this site because we need more cheer leading, blinder-wearing zealots. I was suggesting that we should all post more frequently here instead of SMC because it's a much better website for all things EZ Smart. It has more individual categories that, in my opinion, helps to direct the specific comments and questions to the proper areas. It's much more EZ specific than SMC without excluding any other tools and I think that helps a lot. But possibly the most important reason this site should get more traffic versus SMC is that it's much, much more free from the harsh rules and prejudices that are so prevalent there. You can't even make an honest and thorough comparison of EZ versus F without getting the watchful eye of the moderators and administrator focused directly on you and there's a good chance you'll receive a warning or worse. This has happened time and time again over there. I'm not suggesting that this forum should become an f-tool bash fest but if there's something negative to be said about f-tool or any other guide system we should be able to bring it out into the open without fear of getting your neck stepped on or at least having the thread locked or deleted. silent

There is nothing about this EZ forum that should turn off any potential EZ customer, unless they happen to be a big fan of that other saw guide system and they can't stand to see it critiqued. We are friendly, helpful, and very open to any thoughtful questions and comments either pro or con regarding the EZ Smart. Cool

Bruce
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Colin



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PostSubject: Re: PBB Dreaming   September 10th 2008, 2:20 pm

Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the input and pics.
I am thinking 50" x 36" will work for me, with a satilite "mini-me" table-50" x 18"or so.
The largest project I have on the "list" is an interior door.
Plan to use panels from 3form(.com)
Will I need leg levelers if I go with two tables? Maybe casters on the big table and levelers on the mini-me????
I like the idea of using it as a squaring assy. table too.

Oh yea, Should we keep the 'How To' section technical?
Aloha,
Colin
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Dik Harrison

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Location : Evans, GA, USA

PostSubject: Levelers are a good idea.   September 10th 2008, 5:18 pm

Colin,

I made my tops "floating", and I have levelers between them and the bases. When I join the units together, the tops are fastened together, not the bases, because my shop floor is not real level and even. I thought that it was easier to level the tops than to come up with a sturdy way to level the entire PBB which is very heavy.

With a smaller and lighter PBB (especially if you don't have casters) should level easily with levelers on the legs.

Have fun...

Dik
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