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 grey anti-chip edges

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jim mumford



Posts : 18
Join date : 2008-07-02

PostSubject: grey anti-chip edges   July 7th 2008, 6:49 pm

I just recieved my PBB. It's missing parts so while I'm waiting for that to get taken care of, I'm taking a peek at what's in there.

I checked out the new grey anti-chip edges for the guide rails. I didn't cut with them yet, like I say, I'm waiting for the rest of my PBB to arrive. Something seems strange with these edges.

I put the grey edges in a guide rail, push upward on them to see how they exert pressure....and they get STUCK upward in such a way that they would not contact the wood at all. I set the guide rail down on my workbench and I'm measuring 1/16" to 3/32" of edge lift off of the bench, with the guide rail flat on the bench. I did talk to Dino about this, and he does say that the smart base will push it back down as it moves over it. But if that's true, aren't we discussing a MAJOR departure from how the system is supposed to work? If I go to move my guide rail to a mark, and my edges are snapped upward and stuck in the air, I have to let go of everything, snap them back down, to make sure they come up to my mark. Why is a sporadic extra step ok?

Dino said it's because the places where they were "pinched" to make them stay on the rail make them get stuck. So after I talked to Dino I put just the first 1.5 inches or so of an edge inserted into the rail, where there's no pinching, and they got stuck upward again. What I see is the squared-off part of the edge that terminates the inner round part gets hung-up on the lower open-edge of the guide rail extrusion. Stuck until I push it back down.

They don't exert as much pressure downward as the white edges do. I thought one of the points of the anti-chip edges was good downward pressure.


I'm ignorant on why the antichip edges changed anyway, so maybe I should start there. Right now I'm sort of at a place where I don't even think I want to try cutting with these grey edges.

Anyone have a take on these edges? Do they work for you?


-Jim
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Andres Cuevas

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Posts : 40
Join date : 2008-07-02
Age : 42
Location : Santiago, Chile

PostSubject: Re: grey anti-chip edges   July 7th 2008, 9:30 pm

jim mumford wrote:
I just recieved my PBB. It's missing parts so while I'm waiting for that to get taken care of, I'm taking a peek at what's in there.

I checked out the new grey anti-chip edges for the guide rails. I didn't cut with them yet, like I say, I'm waiting for the rest of my PBB to arrive. Something seems strange with these edges.

I put the grey edges in a guide rail, push upward on them to see how they exert pressure....and they get STUCK upward in such a way that they would not contact the wood at all. I set the guide rail down on my workbench and I'm measuring 1/16" to 3/32" of edge lift off of the bench, with the guide rail flat on the bench. I did talk to Dino about this, and he does say that the smart base will push it back down as it moves over it. But if that's true, aren't we discussing a MAJOR departure from how the system is supposed to work? If I go to move my guide rail to a mark, and my edges are snapped upward and stuck in the air, I have to let go of everything, snap them back down, to make sure they come up to my mark. Why is a sporadic extra step ok?

Dino said it's because the places where they were "pinched" to make them stay on the rail make them get stuck. So after I talked to Dino I put just the first 1.5 inches or so of an edge inserted into the rail, where there's no pinching, and they got stuck upward again. What I see is the squared-off part of the edge that terminates the inner round part gets hung-up on the lower open-edge of the guide rail extrusion. Stuck until I push it back down.

They don't exert as much pressure downward as the white edges do. I thought one of the points of the anti-chip edges was good downward pressure.


I'm ignorant on why the antichip edges changed anyway, so maybe I should start there. Right now I'm sort of at a place where I don't even think I want to try cutting with these grey edges.

Anyone have a take on these edges? Do they work for you?


-Jim

Jim, the antichip changed because the white ones had some problems, I can mention two:

- The antichip lifted the rail, if you didn't have the antichip edge on both sides this may cause a deflection.
- If you applied different amount of pressure with the clamps you might over trimming the antichip edges.

I have the antichips but I haven't used yet, I'm still in the design phase of my next project. For TLOML that means that I haven't done anything. Laughing
But I saw the same detail as you, I don't think that it's going to be a problem for aligning the rail, you just need to push the antichip edge with your fingers. I'm lucubrating because as I just said, I haven't used it.

Andres.
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jim mumford



Posts : 18
Join date : 2008-07-02

PostSubject: Re: grey anti-chip edges   July 8th 2008, 11:12 am

Andres Cuevas wrote:

Jim, the antichip changed because the white ones had some problems, I can mention two:

- The antichip lifted the rail, if you didn't have the antichip edge on both sides this may cause a deflection.
- If you applied different amount of pressure with the clamps you might over trimming the antichip edges.

But I saw the same detail as you, I don't think that it's going to be a problem for aligning the rail, you just need to push the antichip edge with your fingers. I'm lucubrating because as I just said, I haven't used it.

Andres.

Thanks Andres, now I see....

I just did quick test on these grey rails.

Dino says that the smart base should push the edges back down if they get snapped up and stuck.
I took the blade off my smart-based saw.
Snapped the edges upward until they stuck.
Ran base over the edges with an AC in there ( the flat one for off-guide work).

What the result was:
The base does not contact the top of the edges strongly enough, so it can't push them downward consistently. Some of it snaps back down, some not.
Because the edges do not sit proud of the top surface of the rail the way the white ones did,
The base doesn't look to be contributing enough downward force to the grey edges.
Then here comes the blade.
Edge still upward.
Until the blade guard comes along and pushes the edge down.
By then the blade has already made the cut, and it's too late.

So this is not always self-correcting. sometimes, but not always.

I can see looking at the end of the Grey edges some of the ways they were changed.
Even when down, Most of the force is placed inboard next to the guide rail now, because it's made bigger next to the guide rail.

That fixes the creep issue by kicking it outward and holding it there.

But that tends to pivot the outer edge at the cut line upward and maybe off the work.

Also the inside semi-circle shape of the grey edge is smaller.
The grey edge now has room twist inside the square rail channel more when it's pushed upward. There's a little square lip that terminates this semi-circle. It now has enough room to twist up and into the guide rail opening and get stuck on it.

If I'm ripping 8' I'd rather not take an extra walk from one end to the other to make sure it's snapped down before making a cut. It's counter to EZ.

It was suggested that the crimping causes this and sand out the crimp.
But then they slip out of the guide rails. Return of an old problem?

I really think these grey edges might need to be looked at closer.
Maybe they'll be fine. I'm not cutting today so I'll have to wait to try them for real.

I can see the creep issue on the white ones though...

-Jim
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jim mumford



Posts : 18
Join date : 2008-07-02

PostSubject: Re: grey anti-chip edges   July 9th 2008, 7:41 am

Well I'm going to try cutting with the grey edges today.
It dawned on me yesterday that the snapping upward feature of the grey edges might be a positive.

While I was moving a 70" rail to put it away....when the grey edges in there started to slip out, I absent-mindedly pushed up on them so they would "snap" upward and lo and behold they stayed in place for transport.

Maybe after all it's going to be a cool feature? Surprised

-Jim
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DinoTheCarpenter



Posts : 67
Join date : 2008-06-16
Location : Edison NJ

PostSubject: Re: grey anti-chip edges   July 9th 2008, 8:25 am

jim mumford wrote:
Well I'm going to try cutting with the grey edges today.
It dawned on me yesterday that the snapping upward feature of the grey edges might be a positive.

While I was moving a 70" rail to put it away....when the grey edges in there started to slip out, I absent-mindedly pushed up on them so they would "snap" upward and lo and behold they stayed in place for transport.

Maybe after all it's going to be a cool feature? Surprised

-Jim

Hi Jim.
Do you like the new feature? Laughing Laughing
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jim mumford



Posts : 18
Join date : 2008-07-02

PostSubject: Re: grey anti-chip edges   July 9th 2008, 11:20 am

Dino - I like it, but you know, you could have just told me ! Rolling Eyes Laughing

BTW - thanks for sending the parts - they got here this morning..

-Jim
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